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Building the world's longest ethanol pipeline

CNN -- John D. Rockefeller figured out a long time ago that the most efficient way to transport liquid fuels long distances wasn't on wheels but in pipelines. Today POET, the privately held Sioux Falls, S.D., company that is the country's largest producer of ethanol, and Tulsa pipeline-builder Magellan Midstream Partners are poised to make the same leap.

They want to build a $4 billion ethanol pipeline -- the first in the U.S. and the longest in the world -- linking cornfields and refineries in the upper Midwest to fuel-hungry markets on the East Coast, while boosting transport efficiency (equivalent to reducing the carbon footprint) 30% compared with rail and nearly 90% compared with trucks.

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Submitted Mar 12, 2010 By: stpetebp

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Dennis783 Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:11,269 Points:2,246,985 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 8:56:16 AM Ignore Dennis783 Report Abuse I'm ok with ethanol being a short-term solution. Building a pipeline would seem to embrace it as a long-range solution, and in my mind its not.
condé Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,747 Points:1,587,670 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 8:28:14 AM Ignore condé Report Abuse Go for it!
wwcj Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,582 Points:383,715 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:25:31 AM Ignore wwcj Report Abuse A gallon of gasoline contains 124,262 BTUs, and weight of CO2 produced by burning is 19.56 pounds. A gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 BTUs, and weight of CO2 produced by burning is 12.57 pounds. A vehicle requires 124,262 BTUs to travel a certain distance. If ethanol is used instead of gasoline, how many pounds of CO2 are emitted into the atmosphere? Do you really want MORE CO2 emissions than gasoline?
w4kh Champion Author Riverside Posts:9,306 Points:1,761,100 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:24:33 AM Ignore w4kh Report Abuse $4 Billion for that pipeline will seem cheap by the time it is completed... biodiesel and ethanol need to be produce from something other than corn, but engines and cars will be designed to use the fuel, and by the time the pipeline is ready, lots more vehicles will be able to run efficiently on ethanol - and we become a little less dependent on imported oil from the middle east...
Cuzilla Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:10,638 Points:1,967,610 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:19:18 AM Ignore Cuzilla Report Abuse I don'r care as long as they don't ask me to help pay for it through gov't subsidies!
bcb_albany Rookie Author Albany Posts:41 Points:224,960 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:18:54 AM Ignore bcb_albany Report Abuse Why not try it out for awhile? If it ends up not being viable, long term, at least the gov't already will have land set aside for something useful, like high-speed rail.
SpruceGuse2 Champion Author Michigan Posts:7,437 Points:1,998,630 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:15:59 AM Ignore SpruceGuse2 Report Abuse It's a start, but for what purpose?
torch347 All-Star Author Indianapolis Posts:638 Points:767,980 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:12:35 AM Ignore torch347 Report Abuse Looks like one very good way to stop the import of oil from other countries.
DJRIO Champion Author Miami Posts:5,474 Points:959,285 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:12:22 AM Ignore DJRIO Report Abuse good
badbonita Champion Author Syracuse Posts:3,836 Points:885,855 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:11:59 AM Ignore badbonita Report Abuse Despite the positives environmentally as well as the possible economic benefits, I have a problem with a pipeline extending 1,800 miles which is transporting a volatile liquid. Any wacko with a grudge against the government, his girlfriend, the local sheriff's policies or that their football team lost can do serious damage to any spot along its length and we would have a major disaster. And yes, I feel the same way about the Alaskan pipeline but it has the positive that it's in the middle of nowhere for the most part.
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:12,377 Points:2,176,265 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:11:43 AM Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse The fack that they feel they need a government guarantee for 80% of the money shows that they can not convince anyone it really makes economic sense. In order to get the guarantee, the group building the pipeline should be forced to pay a high price. If they want an 80% guarantee, the government should get partial ownership for taking the risk (say about 10%) if they don't need to pay out any money and total ownership if they have to pay out any money on the guarantee. The group would get lower rates by getting the guarantee so the government should be paid for getting them the lower rate as well as taking the risk.
nerde Champion Author Florida Posts:3,885 Points:855,575 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:11:24 AM Ignore nerde Report Abuse Food for gas. So it's more important to feed our cars.
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:16,289 Points:2,252,340 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:11:10 AM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse "How would you like your oil shale - fried or broiled? Corn is for food. When hunger is wiped out then the excess can be used for whatever. " What a ridiculous statement. Most corn was and is being used for livestock feed. Over 30 million tons of distillers grain was produced and sold as livestock feed suppliments last year. There is more livestock feed (corn+distillers grains) available today because of ethanol production.
spiderjay Champion Author Little Rock Posts:3,294 Points:956,955 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:10:46 AM Ignore spiderjay Report Abuse with the leftovers maybe they can make some cor suryp
ironbox_sara Champion Author Albany Posts:7,240 Points:1,781,015 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:10:23 AM Ignore ironbox_sara Report Abuse Lots of kooks standing in the way of this one.
dhawk24 Champion Author Maine Posts:5,535 Points:1,148,760 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:09:47 AM Ignore dhawk24 Report Abuse I hope there is a pipeline attack before it evers get to the East coast. Ethanol is garbage and not fit for any kind of combustible engine...
bugc Champion Author Boston Posts:12,960 Points:2,606,510 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:09:23 AM Ignore bugc Report Abuse What is the payback period? When will the savings equal the cost?
PENNYPINCHR Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:4,097 Points:2,001,655 Joined:Jul 2001	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:08:33 AM Ignore PENNYPINCHR Report Abuse I hope somebody take this out................
ILVET Champion Author Illinois Posts:12,489 Points:2,472,095 Joined:Jan 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:07:09 AM Ignore ILVET Report Abuse I wonder if the president will get the checkbook out and pay for the pipeline??
wheelman82 Champion Author Maryland Posts:23,030 Points:1,723,165 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:05:33 AM Ignore wheelman82 Report Abuse @JimL1--Take your meds, dude...
dan30thz28 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,680 Points:1,535,970 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:03:53 AM Ignore dan30thz28 Report Abuse At least there wouldn't be as much worry about pipeline attacks, or would there?
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:4,788 Points:732,635 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:03:37 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse This is all well and good, but when, when - are these people going to realize that things like sugar beets are much more plausible then corn or switch grass for making ethanol? The USA is decades behind South America in this ethanol production and technology. Corn simply is not the answer, and some of the producers in states like Minnesota have realized that sugar beets are more productive in producing ethanol then corn.
Digger5 Veteran Author Milwaukee Posts:436 Points:1,227,735 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:01:24 AM Ignore Digger5 Report Abuse I just hope they make it a 2 way pipeline, so that when they start turning all of the east coast garbage into ethanol, they can reverse the pipeline, and send it to the midwest!
JimL1 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:5,739 Points:806,475 Joined:Jul 2003	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 7:00:39 AM Ignore JimL1 Report Abuse Does anyone care? . .This morning I find that the SPECULATOR & MANIPULATOR stpetebp has posted another article, as have two other SPECULATORs & MANIPULATORs (Timberline & PD ) in hopes of getting more amateur SPECULATOR sucked into the SPECULATOR & MANIPULATOR game. Yesterday the SPECULATOR & MANIPULATOR stpetebp posted articles, in hopes of getting more amateur SPECULATORs sucked into the SPECULATOR & MANIPULATOR game. The day before yesterday all five articles were put up by the same person, stpetebp . Are stpetebp, Timberline & PD SPECULATORs & MANIPULATORs? This question is valid today, since three articles on the Gas Buddy Blog/Recent News site today are designed to feed the SPECULATOR frenzy. 1)" Building the world's longest ethanol pipeline” (Posted by: stpetebp), 2)“ China's oil demand increase 'astonishing', says IEA” (Posted by: (Timberline), and 3)“ Economic troubles show in oil demand statistics” (Posted by: PD ) These three articles are simply more attempts to stir up the frenzy of SPECULATOR s. Stirring up the frenzy of SPECULATOR s increases the cost of fuel. Is this what we need on a site that is supposed to be dedicated to helping people find less expensive fuel? Yes, I have been tracking SPECULATOR postings on this site for weeks. The least number of articles designed to increase speculation on any one day has been two. Today it is three out of five. Experienced SPECULATOR s tend to win more profits as more of those not deeply experienced in commodity speculation get into the game. It is very similar to a poker game in that respect. The new players/ SPECULATOR s normally get their clocks cleaned and the experienced players/ SPECULATOR s increase their winnings. Stirring up the frenzy of SPECULATOR s increases the cost of fuel. Is this what we need on a site that is supposed to be dedicated to helping people find less expensive fuel? Again, DOES ANYONE CARE???????????????????????????
Spike294 Rookie Author South Carolina Posts:88 Points:567,510 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:59:31 AM Ignore Spike294 Report Abuse It takes forever to get approval to build anything like this
Cruiser340 Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:10,297 Points:2,326,215 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:59:24 AM Ignore Cruiser340 Report Abuse Not in my backyard.
mk9999 Champion Author Rochester Posts:5,548 Points:1,205,870 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:58:18 AM Ignore mk9999 Report Abuse Corn ethanol should be illegal.
ziyulu Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:6,103 Points:1,159,750 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:55:43 AM Ignore ziyulu Report Abuse no_monkey2002 from Tallahassee... Here we are having a nice discussion on the world's longest ethanol pipeline and you have to bring up our President and make fun of his name. May I remind you that the President's name is OBAMA without the bizarre embellishment. You needn't agree with him, in fact that you don't, could make this thread more interesting. However, as a citizen, you owe the office respect. Just the basic stuff you learned at home and teach your children now. Schoolyard puns belong in the schoolyard. Now, let's get back on topic. The last time I heard, I thought ethanol cannot be shipped through pipelines 'cause it will attract water. How will they manage to overcome this?
rjoeh Champion Author Michigan Posts:5,735 Points:2,057,390 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:54:19 AM Ignore rjoeh Report Abuse Anyway you slice it, it would mean jobs and economies of scale for this newcomer to the energy business to grow and survive.
FocusGuy Champion Author Seattle Posts:4,894 Points:965,825 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:54:08 AM Ignore FocusGuy Report Abuse for the life of me, i have never understood putting food in my car.
Tnerbeel Champion Author Houston Posts:6,350 Points:1,283,885 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:52:37 AM Ignore Tnerbeel Report Abuse Being from Texas I say go right ahead-ship all that Ethanol to the east coast.
fcdriver Champion Author Tennessee Posts:5,198 Points:1,065,800 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:52:17 AM Ignore fcdriver Report Abuse where is it that they cant grow corn why do they need a pipeline
Bill100 Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:37,360 Points:704,295 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:51:32 AM Ignore Bill100 Report Abuse FuelOilOH is right on.
Beau2140 Champion Author New York Posts:5,931 Points:1,189,185 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:48:02 AM Ignore Beau2140 Report Abuse If we have to have ethanol we should ship it cheaply.
FuelOilOH Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,338 Points:945,555 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:47:56 AM Ignore FuelOilOH Report Abuse How would you like your oil shale - fried or broiled? Corn is for food. When hunger is wiped out then the excess can be used for whatever.
Rick01 Champion Author Utah Posts:6,634 Points:1,908,215 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:47:52 AM Ignore Rick01 Report Abuse Shut the ethanol plants down and save even more.
PATroy All-Star Author Pittsburgh Posts:852 Points:922,030 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:47:22 AM Ignore PATroy Report Abuse What an eyesore for those cornfields!!! I hope the farmers get well paid for the use of their property!!!
DWME Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,223 Points:250,000 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:47:06 AM Ignore DWME Report Abuse Ethanol does not have a future. Why waste $4 billion?
afghaned Champion Author Hamilton Posts:8,493 Points:820,625 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:46:50 AM Ignore afghaned Report Abuse There goes the price of ethanol. The company will surely pass the cost on to the consumer.
no_monkey2002 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:6,213 Points:1,620,775 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:44:53 AM Ignore no_monkey2002 Report Abuse that is one way to get more people to work ...so go for it..OBANA will foot half the bill
bluzdw Sophomore Author Missouri Posts:121 Points:30,745 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:43:49 AM Ignore bluzdw Report Abuse sure, why not
arinkrat17 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,999 Points:866,995 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:42:40 AM Ignore arinkrat17 Report Abuse ethanol isn't the long term deal.
PrepHermit Champion Author New Jersey Posts:5,794 Points:1,181,110 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:42:40 AM Ignore PrepHermit Report Abuse Fresh from the field to your car.
dabayer Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:1,559 Points:392,730 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:42:21 AM Ignore dabayer Report Abuse Waste of money, hassle for property owners. Ethanol will NOT last for too long.
rvn4me Champion Author Texas Posts:3,259 Points:1,029,740 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:42:05 AM Ignore rvn4me Report Abuse Here we go with more carbon footprint crap.
LocalSpyGuy Champion Author Tampa Posts:5,474 Points:1,119,245 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:39:43 AM Ignore LocalSpyGuy Report Abuse temporary fix - ethanol is not the long term solution
bikechuck Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:4,632 Points:1,596,180 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:38:56 AM Ignore bikechuck Report Abuse Makes more sense to work the oil shale fields and when finished turn back to viable land.
mswillia All-Star Author Milwaukee Posts:802 Points:304,570 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:38:55 AM Ignore mswillia Report Abuse A leak in that pipe will be a disaster, and it will affect many people. I sure hope it doesn't go through
Spetsnaz Champion Author Dayton Posts:1,711 Points:591,795 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:38:13 AM Ignore Spetsnaz Report Abuse Going Greener!
Zuman Champion Author New York Posts:3,883 Points:1,441,655 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2010 6:35:08 AM Ignore Zuman Report Abuse Lets stop burning food.